Criteria needed for ratings

[FP Walter]

As Herr Tristan notes, his star ratings are “subjective,” and certainly there will be subjective ingredients in any such assessment. But I still feel some criteria, some basic standards, need to be stipulated — otherwise, we have questionable verdicts such as Furtwaengler’s Milan “Ring” being given 9/10 even though it features regrettable cuts, whereas Moralt and Keilberth merit only 8/10 despite being complete … surely textual integrity should be a major factor, no matter how eloquent the orchestral playing. Or, to take a sharply different example, Pappano’s 2005 Tristan is given one of the lowest ratings of all, 2/10 — which is surely ridiculous since the set is, beyond question, skillfully recorded, played, sung, and packaged. Of course one may prefer Furwaengler, Boehm, or Kleiber … yet IN WHAT WAYS could Pappano’s later effort be so lacking in merit and professionalism as to warrant such a shockingly dismal rating?

In short, without intelligible criteria, some of Herr Tristan’s ratings can seem simply bigoted and meaningless — and his overall achievement is too valuable to be undermined in this way.

Sincerely,
FP Walter in Albuquerque

[andy-bandy]

hey man!
How are you doing? I really enjoy your attempt to make a discussion! Maybe – a theory of mine – the internet fora just haven’t been introduced to Wagner enthusiasts? (I’m sure many would have strong opinions) I think that the pappanos tristan is underrated, but i like other recordings much better (such as Furtwanglers, as you mentioned). Wether or not there should be criterias regarding the “cuts” of version I disagree with you. I think it shouldn’t be a question wether or not it is “correct”, but the message and “wholeness” of the piece. Shouldnt conductors be allowed to interpret pieces (as long as it isn’t disrespectful. Really man? Do you seriously consider Furtwaenglers ring “a questionable verdict” solely based on the “textual integrity”?!?!

sincerily

Andy

🙂

[FP Walter]

Thanks for your comments, Andy. I agree it’s strange that Wagnerites haven’t contributed more actively to this forum, since they’re hyperactive elsewhere. As for supplying criteria, the benefit is simply clear communication — if Herr Tristan likes or dislikes something, at least I have some understanding of his priorities and can decide if I want to hear a particular performance.
As for cuts, certainly they impact the “wholeness” of a piece . . . how can anybody dispute that? So I’d give Furtwängler’s Scala Ring, at best, an 8/10 because of its Wotan cuts — they scrap a major driving motive (the god’s failure to find a free agent) from the action altogether. Therefore I find this an incandescent performance (esp. in Andrew Rose’s cleaned-up edition), but hardly an ideal presentation of “the work as a whole.”

All the best,
F. P. Walter
Albuquerque, New Mexico

[stanzani]

Just registered, I plan to contribute to this forum actively
about ratings, the site is of course Tristan’s property, but I’d suggest to pen the registered user to rate the item as well, maybe adding to the blog a user’s’ rating field
Rating is also too synthentic: some recording may have excellent dirention with ugly vocals (and the other way ’round), and it is a matter of tast (traditional vs. modern and creative mis-en-scene)

Marco from Milan

[andy-bandy]

Hi walter!

long time “no see” as we say. I will try to reply a lot more often. I cant disagree, of course it doues something with the “wholeness” of the piece. After listening to several recordings of der ring des nbielungen i must say that u am too attached (in love) to(with) furtwanglers wagner to give it ratings anything less than 10/10. I stand by my decision because it is the best 8in my opinion) recording there is. I have heard the others, but there are no one who encapsules your soul and being into an opera like Furtwangler. I have tried to experience others, but i keep returning to furtwangler (if you think another recording can “fill the gap” please tell me). On to another subject; Opera is, in my opinion, a perfect blend between music, poetry and storyline (in which Wagner manages to balance all these factors perfectly (maintaining the centre of the opera on the music)). Recently i was in a discussion about art forms (by the way, im not here only to dispute the “true nature of the opera”) in which i of course argued that opera is the most developed and complete art form prior to video games that my friend was going on about. I managed to convince him that opera is a more complete art form, than video games (obviously). On the other hand, video games has been developing a lot in the recent years, they have been collaborating with orchestras perfectioning their artistic agenda (becoming an art form). I personally think that video game music has become a respected form of art that will be developing, unfortunately on the expence of the most complete art form: opera. what do you think about this mattes? i would like to hear someone from the opera side contemplate this matter besides myself.

Marco!? have you ever been to alla scala???

Andy 🙂
Oslo, Norway

[stanzani]

Hello Andy
yes, many times at last scal. Among other I enjoyned Tristan with C.Kleiber (end of 70s) and Barenboim (the great Tristan featuring E.Meier and many Ring cycle opera)

cheers

[Author]

Posts